Comments on Decompose: How Shall We Then Kill? #3

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I am not on a c...

2006-08-27T19:06:00.000-07:00

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I am not on a crusade against the death penalty, but understand how someone could be. I am genuinely conflicted and the thoughts here are meant to be more evidence of my disquietude than an apologetic against capitol punishment. I've rendered similar thoughts in a more poetic form in my essay Of Saints and Serial Killers, which juxtaposes the depths of our depravity against the heights of grace. Thanks again for the wonderful spirit of dialogue.

I guess we can hope and pray that, if Wayne Adam F...

2006-08-27T18:52:00.000-07:00

I guess we can hope and pray that, if Wayne Adam Ford is truly repentent, God will reveal Christ to him and redeem his soul before he dies. God is certainly able to do it.

Thanks for this thoughtful series. When this topic comes up in conversation, I just may direct people to your archives.

You've identified a really hard question, Mike, es...

2006-08-25T19:39:00.000-07:00

You've identified a really hard question, Mike, especially in a democracy, where I might be called to be on the jury during a killer's trial. I've received consolation, knowing that my religious convictions would probably mean I would never be chosen for said jury, but the question is valid. When I am on that jury, am I then part of the government?

And you are absolutely right. We do not know the heart of a man, to know if there is a window of hope that his remorse will take him to repentence or not.

I think this is very much one of those "conscience" issues. If you as my brother in Christ opted for a consciencious objection stance when it came to the death penalty, I'd support you completely. And if my brother in Christ Tim took the position that he'd vote on that jury for the death penalty, I'd support him one hundred percent. I don't know that God gives us all the same conviction.

I hope that's not a cop out. I'm pretty sure I couldn't kill someone. I also believe the government should have the death penalty to bring peace to society.

But there we are again--what should be and what is with the government's system of justice ...

Becky

I agree that forgiveness doesn't neccesarily mean ...

2006-08-25T09:38:00.000-07:00

I agree that forgiveness doesn't neccesarily mean no consequences. I had sex before I was married. Eventually, I was very sorry, but I was still pregnant. God forgave me. I married a non-Christian even though I knew it wouldn't be God's choice. Once I realized how difficult a relationship it could be, I was sorry. God forgave me, but called me to stay faithful and love my husband (who is a believer now).
Where am I going with this? let's see... the murderer can be as sorry as can be. That repentant heart can bring him forgiveness, and maybe peace. But it can't bring back his victims or ease the pain in the hearts of their families. And I don't think it should eliminate the consequences of his crime. David Berkowitz (son of Sam killer) is born again and serving God in prison where he'll be for life. He is very sorry and says that it is right for him to be in prison. I guess the main point is that the repentant heart that seeks God DOES receive mercy. Even if he is put to death in an electric chair, he goes instantly to be with the Lord. He receives eternal life! I don't know if the punishment should be death. Maybe it should be life in prison. But there should be punishment.
Guess it's a day for babbling. Great post Mike. You made me think. Again. Now I have a headache.

Re: Government vs. IndividualAs far as I know, yes...

2006-08-25T07:06:00.000-07:00

Re: Government vs. Individual

As far as I know, yes, Romans 13 is the only passage in the New Testament that addresses this topic. But that's because the vast majority of the NT is about how we should live as individuals, as Christians, in our personal lives. Paul and the other writers weren't concerned with giving instructions to governments/legal authorities. In fact, Romans 13 was only reiterating the basis for human government that God had given way back in Genesis 9:6 (which predates the Mosaic Law and is therefore not included in any discussion of what Christ meant by "fulfilling" the Law).

Moses, David, and probably Paul all absolutely deserved the death penalty under all this. However, it's up to the government, not individuals. Paul's government sanctioned his actions. Moses was apparently forgiven by the Egyptian government when he returned. And David WAS the government, so it was up to God Himself to determine appropriate punishment (and one could easily make the case that David's punishment was far worse than death).

There are always consequences for sin. Forgiveness, yes. But forgiveness doesn't invalidate what happened or the consequences for it.

Some of my absolute favorite stories are about people who have committed incredible crimes and yet find redemption. I love how God can transform people. But at the same time, I cannot turn against the clear teaching of Scripture that it is the government's responsibility to punish the crime - not as a deterrent, but as a punishment.

Wow, I've babbled a lot. I think you make a very good case, Mike, and it's all the more thoughtful and provoking in that you didn't even go near the standard "Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery!" argument.